AI in Learning: Balancing Innovation with the Human Touch

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Discover how to master the future of learning by empowering your potential with generative AI. AI expert Josh Cavalier discusses how to leverage top AI technologies in L&D and offers practical advice to stay ahead in this rapidly evolving field.

 

Show Notes:

Josh Cavalier unpacks the power of personalization, emotional intelligence, and AI-driven tools that are revolutionizing instructional design. Key takeaways include:

• Balancing Human Expertise with AI Integration: To successfully integrate AI into instructional design, professionals must maintain a deep understanding of foundational technologies like large language models and diffusion models while preserving human expertise and skills.
• The Evolution of Personalization in Learning: AI enables learning content to break free from traditional LMS "boxes," delivering personalized, trackable experiences tailored to individual preferences and accessibility needs, from video tutorials to printable checklists.
• Mastering Prompt Design: Prompting is the cornerstone of effective AI communication. Developing skills in crafting precise and purposeful prompts is crucial for professionals looking to optimize AI-driven workflows and enhance learning outcomes.
• AI's Role in Emotional Intelligence and Adaptability: Multimodal AI, capable of analyzing biometric and emotional data, is poised to revolutionize learning by adapting to a learner’s emotional state and stress levels, ensuring content is delivered at the right time for maximum engagement and retention.
• Future Trends in AI and Learning Platforms: The consolidation of human capital management systems with LMS and LXP platforms, powered by AI agents, will reshape onboarding, skill tracking, and performance improvement, emphasizing the importance of staying curious and proactive in exploring emerging technologies.

Learn more about Josh Cavalier 

Read How AI is Transforming the Innovation Landscape in Learning & Development by d’Vinci’s Mason Scuderi

Read How to Customize ChatGPT to Get the Results You Want by d’Vinci’s Jenica Jones  

Read Enhancing Instructional Design: The Synergy of AI and Human Expertise by d’Vinci’s Jenica Jones  

Powered by Learning earned Awards of Distinction in the Podcast/Audio and Business Podcast categories from The Communicator Awards and a Gold and Silver Davey Award. The podcast is also named to Feedspot's Top 40 L&D podcasts and Training Industry’s Ultimate L&D Podcast Guide.

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Transcript:

Susan Cort: [00:00:00] The use of AI continues to evolve at a rapid pace for L& D practitioners. The challenge is staying ahead of the curve to leverage all the tools have to offer.

Josh Cavalier: And so I truly do believe that everybody should have their own personal learning plan when it comes to AI so that they can be part of the conversation as technology shifts and changes in their environment and they understand what does that mean for all.

Josh Cavalier: Our associates, what does that mean when it comes to solving problems and to addressing performance issues? Because not only does it change for the instructional designer, but it changes for the associate at the same time.

Susan Cort: That's Josh Cavalier, an expert in the field of AI in learning and development.

Susan Cort: Josh joins d’Vinci’s Director Learning Experience, Jenny Fedullo and me to talk about the transformative impact of artificial intelligence on instructional design and corporate learning, next [00:01:00] on Powered by Learning.

Announcer: Powered by Learning is brought to you by d’Vinci Interactive. d’Vinci’s approach to learning is grounded in 30 years of innovation and expertise.

Announcer: We use proven strategies and leading technology to develop solutions that empower learners to improve quality and boost performance. Learn more at dvinci.com.

Susan Cort: Josh, welcome.

Announcer: Good to be here, Susan.

Susan Cort: Hi, Josh. Good to see you.

Josh Cavalier: Hey, Jenny.

Susan Cort: Josh, first of all, start off by telling us a little bit about your background.

Josh Cavalier: Yeah, so what's interesting is I've been in learning development for 30 years, but it didn't start out that way. I have a degree in medical illustration, and I got started in that industry, but was exposed to multimedia very early in the early 90s. And I happened to get an opportunity to become an art director for an e learning firm based here in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Josh Cavalier: And the gentleman I work for, Dick Hanshaw, He is well [00:02:00] known for performance consulting and working in that area. And so I got to understand instructional design, performance consulting, in addition to all of the things that were happening in regards to media from CD ROM to the Internet to mobile. In 1999, I went ahead and formed my own company, Lodestone, became one of the top Adobe authorized training providers in the United States.

Josh Cavalier: In that capacity, I would go into L& D departments and spin them up on technology. So whether it be authoring tools, video editing tools, even LMS, LXP implementation, part of that conversation. So, I'm an education technologist, and I have been my whole entire career. Most recently around, well, about five weeks before COVID, I decided to jump back into corporate.

Josh Cavalier: So after 20 years, getting back into a corporate role, uh, I worked for American tire distributors as an individual [00:03:00] contributor. So that was a little weird for me, uh, being a leader and then being an individual contributor. But I really wanted to one, give myself a break, kind of do a reset and see exactly what was current state happening within organizations.

Josh Cavalier: And, uh, the short of it is that I was leading the charge of an analytics product, helping frontline sales. Um, with the implementation and the selling of that tool did a lot of big things around the brand around ATD and getting that information out there. Like, we opened up a new building during COVID and supporting all that, but AI shows up in November of 2022.

Josh Cavalier: I got my hands on Chat GPT a week after it was released and within about three weeks, I knew in my heart that this was going to be a fence post moment that this is going to be a radical shift in the way that technology shows up. And so I was all in and [00:04:00] posting by the end of January, beginning of February on LinkedIn, different thoughts and ideas about how large language models can be used around instructional design and it took off and so right towards the end of Covid decided to go back out on my own and that shows up as JoshCavalier.AI. and I do a lot of consulting workshops webinars all around the implementation of artificial intelligence within the L and D function.

Susan Cort: What a great journey you've had. And then it sounds like you're very well positioned to, uh, help share with our listeners about artificial intelligence and learning and development.

Josh Cavalier: Yeah, I've been in a lot of different environments. I think that that's a true blessing. Uh, of my career is I have been in many fortune 500 companies within the L and D within the HR function, spinning up technology, understanding, um, how difficult it could be.[00:05:00]

Josh Cavalier: Uh, all the challenges that are there, but when there is the perfect environment, that culture of innovation, that there is this meeting of where technology can really accelerate and you can create these amazing learning experiences for our associates.

Jenny Fedullo: So, Josh, I know you quickly became the go to expert regarding AI.

Jenny Fedullo: We're super thrilled to have you on our Powered by Learning podcast today. Um, so I know for us, we've been really intentional about maintaining the human element. Well, integrating AI, from your perspective, what strategies have you found that are most effective for striking that balance? Right? We want to use that technology.

Jenny Fedullo: You can do so much for us. But how do we preserve the skills, the expertise that instructional designers have?

Josh Cavalier: Right? Yeah. So I think a lot of this comes back to giving yourself agency. And what I mean by that [00:06:00] is giving yourself a foundation and how the technology works. How does a large language model work?

Josh Cavalier: How does a diffusion model work when it comes to images or audio? Um, and it's more than just content creation because these models are evolving to start to solve problems or do deep thinking. And there is going to be this constant change in capabilities that are going to be rolling out. Over the next 2 or 3 years and so what technology can do to assist an instructional designer is going to be redefined in pivotal moments, and the only way that you can navigate that is understanding how the technology works. How does it appear for you personally within your learning ecosystem? So within your company, but then with. But also for you personally, right? And [00:07:00] so I truly do believe that everybody should have their own personal learning plan when it comes to AI so that they can be part of the conversation as technology shifts.

Josh Cavalier: And changes when in their environment and they understand what does that mean for our associates? What does that mean when it comes to solving problems and to addressing performance issues? Because not only does it change for the instructional designer, but it changes for the associate at the same time.

Josh Cavalier: That is a hard vector. Like that is extremely difficult. And the only way that you can track what is possible is understanding these base technologies of AI.

Jenny Fedullo: Gotcha. Gotcha. So. We've seen how AI is going to help us, you know, break the traditional learning boundaries. Um, I know you've, I've heard you say AI is going to enable us to kind of get content out of [00:08:00] boxes.

Jenny Fedullo: Can you expand on some of the innovative approaches you're seeing and where we might be able to go with that? I'm super excited about this aspect of it. Laying out the learning so differently than what we're used to.

Josh Cavalier: Sure, so let, let's just define like what it means to have things in boxes. You know, when I first got started in e learning back in the 90s, I can remember working with a team member on getting our first course on an LMS.

Josh Cavalier: And what a headache that was to actually get the tracking and get the information back. And that was my first experience with having content in a box, right? And so there's these boundaries, natural boundaries that are created when we have content that's in a platform or on a server. And then our associates need to access that content.

Josh Cavalier: You know that those are boxes that are formed.

Jenny Fedullo: Yep.

Josh Cavalier: And what I see happening is the ability for one [00:09:00] through A. I. and generative A. I. content to live where it needs to be to meet the associate where they want to consume the content, whether it be on their mobile device on their laptop, uh, and uh, and. Oh, you know, eyeglasses, you know, rate Meta, you know, Ray Bans or whatever.

Josh Cavalier: But the issue around that is that if we do have the ability to leverage generative AI and to create content the way that the associate wants it, maybe they wanted a printed checklist. Maybe they want a video with an avatar, whatever, right? Well, that still needs to be tracked, right? We still need to make sure that it's being consumed properly that then, you know, we're moving the needle in regards to performance issues or business problems.

Josh Cavalier: But I do see the ability for one personalization of content, have it live where it needs to live outside of an LMS. It could be, you know, on your server. It could be sitting [00:10:00] somewhere else online and trackable. Now, to that issue, there are new platforms being created, specifically one that I'm extremely interested in is this platform called XCL.

Josh Cavalier: It's by Build Capable and the leader of that company is Sarah Mercier. And so what they have done is created a platform that's based on XAPI. And for those of you that are not familiar with XAPI, it really allows you to go ahead and track content outside of an LMS. It's called experience API application.

Josh Cavalier: Application performance interface and so with XCL, depending upon the media type, it could go ahead and track things with video with a PDF, whatever you have, and you get valuable information back. And so if I have some type of performance issue, I can then go ahead and create using generative AI personalized content to [00:11:00] meet the associate where they're at, especially when it comes to accessibility.

Josh Cavalier: Right, or if somebody is on the spectrum and they learn a certain way, Hey, no problem. We can go ahead and, you know, create a video that you can watch at 2x speed, because that's the way you like to listen to your videos, right? But all that now can be tracked. And we can get the, uh, analytics back that we need to see if we are moving the needle.

Josh Cavalier: Are we solving that problem? And are we getting a change in performance?

Jenny Fedullo: Yeah, that's so interesting. I know I was gonna, that was my next, uh, you know, thing I wanted to talk to you about was personalization. Um, it's, it's, it's so intriguing where, where this can go for sure. I know you mentioned one platform and, and, um, Like many in our space, we're watching where this, where this is going to go and, and evolve.

Jenny Fedullo: I know when we spoke prior, you said, you know, "Hey, I'm, I'm, I think there's going to be a really a consolidation of some of [00:12:00] these, you know, platforms and, you know, human capital platforms, right?" How do you see this kind of playing out? And what should those of us, you know, that anyone listening and learning companies really be preparing for?

Susan Cort: Get your crystal ball out.

Josh Cavalier: The lens out on this. So there's a lot of moving parts to this. But one constant that is happening, at least the way that I see things happening in different Um, different areas of business like sales, and I look at what's happening with Salesforce. com and Mark Benioff and what he's doing there with agent force and getting many of the tasks or many of the functions of sales.

Josh Cavalier: With agents and so, you know, if we look at the tasks that we do as instructional designers, those low risk, high reward tasks are going to be agent [00:13:00] base. For instance, here's an interview with a subject matter expert or multiple subject matter experts on a potential performance issue out in the field. I want an agent to analyze this and give me, um.

Josh Cavalier: Some potential in regards to what is happening, um, and then what can we do as far as learning objectives or putting together an action map around that? Right? So these are things that we do day in and day out. Now, the question is, though. Where are those agents going to live? How are they going to show up?

Josh Cavalier: Currently, there is velocity happening in the human capital management area. So if we look to SAP, we look to Oracle, we look to Workday, there is a lot of activity around agents within those platforms. And here, this is, this is the sticky wicket. This is where the rub is going to happen. Within those platforms, we do a lot of onboarding [00:14:00] activities.

Josh Cavalier: And so I believe there's going to be a downward stream to where it's going to bump into L& D specifically around onboarding. So we're going to have agents that are going to take someone that was just hired. You're going to have your onboarding training and those agents are going to be in working there, potentially talking to agents on an LMS or an LXP.

Josh Cavalier: Right. So there could be the potential to have crosstalk between those. But I believe there's going to be some consolidation to where from a reporting standpoint, these vendors that are human capital management vendors are going to gobble up or leverage their own internal LMS LXP and have agents across the spectrum.

Josh Cavalier: So whether it's creating a personalized learning path when somebody is on boarded, but being with that individual. From a skill indexing standpoint, understanding what the what's happening with their roles as they [00:15:00] change, especially with the backdrop of AI, right? That is going to be one of the most difficult things for, uh.

Josh Cavalier: You know, for us in performance to handle is when a role changes in increments based upon a I like it's what's funny is, you know, so many people are like, Oh, well, one day, you know, we're gonna have a tier one call center people and the next they're gone. Like, I, I can't buy into that because I know technology fails.

Josh Cavalier: And so, you know, An example would be McDonald's. McDonald's three years ago, they hired IBM to help them automate their drive through ordering system. So they go through this process, they pilot this thing out, they decide to roll it out in a couple, um, locations and it fails hard. So there's all these issues with the AI and someone's ordering 230 McNuggets and they only wanted two and, and McDonald's scrapped it.[00:16:00]

Josh Cavalier: Now, I think that's the way it's going to happen within our organizations. We have this kind of panacea. You know, agents and all these things are going to happen, but the reality is companies may try to use agents to do task level, um, work. You know, and so as a human, you may work with AI on a task that may need human in the loop, but then you realize, this agent's not getting the job done.

Josh Cavalier: You know, we need to go ahead and take back more of that work or this agent's actually amazing. I can just go ahead and let it do its thing and then come back a week later and take a look at the analytics around it. Right? And so the human capital management system is going to keep track of those.

Josh Cavalier: Changes within the job or job function so that if someone leaves the organization or role gets eliminated in the new roles created you can then judge what is the relationship between the human [00:17:00] and the machine so that when you're recruiting. And if someone has that experience of working with AI or working with a machine or a robot.

Josh Cavalier: Oh, well, that's a candidate that we need. Oh, and by the way, when we hire you, um, your role may change because we're working on this platform that may introduce additional agents. But we already know how, you know, what else you're going to do. It's this weird dance. Yeah. And so I think all I say, I'm saying all of that to where if I had to play this out, I think it's advantageous for the human capital management system to include an LMS LXP part of it.

Josh Cavalier: And then also, um, the skill indexing. And the performance data and the, uh, personnel data all in one package.

Jenny Fedullo: Intriguing. You're blowing my mind here.

Josh Cavalier: It blows my mind.

Jenny Fedullo: Right? Oh my gosh. Yeah. So let's [00:18:00] switch gears. Let's talk about prompting. I know at d’Vinci, we really, we put, some effort into this, right?

Jenny Fedullo: We talk about it's very deliberate. We've really refined our prompting techniques as we look ahead again. Crystal ball. Where do you see, um, prompting capabilities heading next? And how might this further transform? The instructional design role job workflows, all of it.

Josh Cavalier: Yeah, so prompting is interesting because that is how we communicate with models.

Josh Cavalier: Right? That that is the the models unto themselves. They're there. They exist. They've been trained, but you can't get anything out of the model until a prompt is sent to the model. And so that's critical. Whether you create the prompt. Or, like, if we look at OpenAI's DALL-E, which makes images, you can go ahead and create a prompt, but in the background, DALL-E refines your prompt to give you a better image.

Josh Cavalier: Right? [00:19:00] So it's redoing the prompt for you without you even knowing it. And so prompting is critical. I think that is like a baseline skill. And the analogy I give. Is back when the Internet was taking off, you had a choice as a professional. Do I want to learn HTML, CSS and JavaScript right? Still used today to deliver web pages.

Josh Cavalier: And if you know JavaScript, well, my gosh, you can go and do custom stuff in storyline. You can go ahead and expand the functionality. The same thing is happening today. Do you want to learn to prompt you could if you want and and have that advantage of understanding the communication protocol between these models or You can hold off.

Josh Cavalier: . But again, I think you lose your agency there. All right. Now, let's talk about the progression of a prompt. So from a prompt, we can get to an agent, but there's definitely steps in between. [00:20:00] And so, like, with a simple prompt and like the example I give prior before getting into AI, like 100 percent I used to talk about educational video a lot, like for five or six years ago, speak around educational video.

Josh Cavalier: And so I can go ahead and prompt and just say, Hey, write me an educational video script as a zero shot prompt, just as a simple request. Well, I mean, that can give you a script in any kind of format. Not necessarily, uh, the best structure for an educational video, or I can go ahead and write a well thought out prompt that uses learning science and what we know about structuring a video to have a very specific format that gains attention, that does reflection, that's emotional.

Josh Cavalier: This is a great format for an educational video, but I have to understand that to create the proper prompt. Let's keep taking that forward. [00:21:00] If I have an awesome prompt, one that just, you know, 99 percent of the time knocks out the best educational script possible, well, I can make that an automation at that point.

Josh Cavalier: I can go ahead and put that into Zapier, make. com, so that when I get my, you know, Interviews from my sneeze back, I can rapidly push it forward to an action map that may show. Hey, we need a video about this, and it creates the video script from those interviews automatically. And if that works, if that workflow works, why not make it an agent?

Josh Cavalier: But at its core, that prompt still sits inside of an agent. So the agent, its sole duty may be to create a video script, but at its heart sits the prompt, right? And so there's this progression of how it shows up, but we never. Leave prompting and I believe that's the reason why [00:22:00] I can't emphasize this enough that as a professional, you should learn how to prompt.

Josh Cavalier: Like, it really should be one of your core understandings because that's how we communicate with a.

Susan Cort: I agree. Do you have any tips, Josh? I mean, obviously, as we all learn these tools. You know, there are days where I think, gosh, that was a good prompt you put in there. And that was better than the last one.

Susan Cort: But is there anything, um, more official you would recommend that people do other than just learning by doing?

Josh Cavalier: Well, I mean, there's all kinds of different courses that you could take that are out there. I mean, I have some, there are free ones that are online, um, that many of the large companies, uh, have put out there like IBM and Microsoft, they're out there.

Josh Cavalier: Um, there's a lot of free resources out on YouTube, you know, pick what works for you, but do something. I mean, again, you know, your learning plan for your personal learning plan of 2025, give yourself agency, learn the fundamentals of prompting. [00:23:00] And I like to call it prompt design, not prompt engineering, like engineering to me is a little exclusive as opposed to inclusive.

Josh Cavalier: And so I like to use prompt design. More so. Um, so, yeah, I mean, get out there and, uh, give yourself some base knowledge, base information, how to prompt.

Jenny Fedullo: Good advice. Yeah. So, you know, we're particularly interested in, and I think you mentioned this a little bit, um, how AI-driven content adapts to the learners, emotional states and stress levels.

Jenny Fedullo: Can you share your insights on emotional intelligence aspect? You know, how might this reshape our, our approach being able to capture that?

Josh Cavalier: Right. So how do we capture it? Right. Uh, let's talk about that first. I think one of the big changes that's going to happen in the way that we do our work is the ability for AI [00:24:00] to work in multiple modes or what we call multimodal.

Josh Cavalier: And so currently There's a lot of talk or a lot of experiences around text, but that is radically going to change in so much that we're going to have audio based conversations with AI we're going to have video based conversations with AI and it's bidirectional and so tapping into our tangential or related field of marketing because I do believe there's a relationship between marketing and learning.

Josh Cavalier: Those professionals over there have been tracking. Bio data for decades, right? The emotional response to an ad or anything like that. Well, if we leverage AI and the AI understands the inflection of somebody's voice. Knowing that they're under stress, the coach or the tutor may say, you know what now may not be the right time for this [00:25:00] lesson.

Josh Cavalier: Why don't you go and take a break and come back in a half hour and let's do this. Let's do this at this time. And so whether your webcam is on, your microphone is open, we are going to get to a point where the AI understands. Again, hopefully it's under a secure environment. What is happening to you, whether you're wearing an Aura ring,

Josh Cavalier: Uh, getting biometric data with your heart rate, it is, you know, it's funny when I was, uh, doing a lot of the talks around video, there was one scientific study that I brought up and. It was based out of Israel and the study was around judges and how the judges would go ahead and determine the outcome of cases.

Josh Cavalier: And it ended up that, uh, prior to lunch, when their glucose levels was, would drop, they would, they had like a lot of negative judgments. [00:26:00] And then after lunch, after they ate, they had more positive judgments. And so there's this whole thing about your glucose levels. It's almost like, you know, when we're at a presentation that we tap out, you know, like you could only like take in so much.

Josh Cavalier: Well, AI is going to understand that about you physically and determine whether you are in the right, you know, moment or like, if we go to Gagne's nine levels of instruction, the first one is gain attention. The AI may say, "Wait a second. You're not even paying attention to what I'm telling you here. So are you ready for this lesson?"

Josh Cavalier: It's going to be phenomenal. I don't know how it shows up. I mean, typically, you know, vendors need to latch onto these capabilities and incorporated into products. The opportunity to take advantage of the bio data of the individual learner and understand their state and then aligning it to when the proper time is for learning is going to be phenomenal.

Susan Cort: [00:27:00] Josh, when you look at the companies that you work with, what do you think are some of the biggest challenges that they face when they're looking at how to implement AI?

Josh Cavalier: So, continuity of leaders, continuity of technology is going to be one of the barriers that some of these companies are going to face when implementing AI.

Josh Cavalier: Like, it's the it's the thing that we don't want to talk about, but it's the, it's the reality. Like leaders come and go, people come and go, uh, new leaders come in. They don't want to use someone else's technology idea. They want to use their own ideas, their own platforms. They have, you know, relationships they built with vendors.

Josh Cavalier: They want to use their vendor. You know, that's, that's very much the human aspect of all this AI stuff, right?

Jenny Fedullo: So for our listeners already working with AI, like, like we are, what. I know you gave us one or two, you know, emerging resources or tools, but what else, what are the top ones that we should be exploring to stay ahead of of the [00:28:00] developments ?

Josh Cavalier: For me, It's always going back to the foundation models, right? So just working with. So, like, if you're an open A. I. If you're using Chat GPT, have you created a custom GPT that doesn't automation or does a task? Like, are you working within there? Or have you used canvas to actually go ahead and work with the document?

Josh Cavalier: Same thing with Anthropic Claude. Um, have you used an artifact in there to do work? Um, have you trained it on your voice or the way that you want the AI to respond? Same thing with Gemini. I have been. In, um, Google labs working with the vision technology like crazy because I realize that's going to be a huge change or a function that's going to change the way that we do things.

Josh Cavalier: But again, I play within the core foundation models because it's a tell, like, it shows me what the possibilities are, and it [00:29:00] gives me a lot of insight into, like, the way that we interact with these systems. And that would be my recommendation. And you can just pick one like you don't have because they leapfrog each other.

Josh Cavalier: You know, it's kind of funny. Like, even though it's like,

Susan Cort: it's like streaming channels on TV. They are all connected anymore. Right? Exactly.

Josh Cavalier: So, like, I just say, especially from a cost standpoint, or depending upon like, The way I shows up in your organization, just pick one platform, but go deep into that platform and understand what is possible.

Josh Cavalier: Understand what's happening with the advanced models from a problem solving math because the new 03 model. From open AI. They just released it right before the holidays. Uh, it's beating out PhD level researchers. Okay. That's never happened before. How does that show up for us? Um, that kind of thing. So I think you have to just be curious.[00:30:00]

Josh Cavalier: You know, you just have to, you have to maintain this level of curiosity about what is possible. Again, it may not show up for you professionally for a year or two, but, but you understand what's possible

Susan Cort: and you could even drive those possibilities, too.

Josh Cavalier: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Susan Cort: Great advice, Josh. And a good reminder for all of us to never stop learning because there's something new around every corner.

Susan Cort: That's for sure. For sure.

Josh Cavalier: Especially these days.

Susan Cort: Well, thanks for taking the time to share your insights with us. We appreciate it. Yeah, I really appreciate the opportunity.

Jenny Fedullo: Yeah. Thank you.

Josh Cavalier: My pleasure.

Susan Cort: I loved Josh's enthusiasm for how AI is transforming instructional design and the importance of keeping human touch. What did you think, Jenny?

Jenny Fedullo: Agreed. His insights into AI's role in reshaping learning from personalized content, to prompting, to [00:31:00] emotional intelligence really highlight You know, exciting possibilities.

Jenny Fedullo: And at d’Vinci, I know we're passionate about using these innovations to create meaningful human centered learning solutions. So I hope our listeners feel curious and inspired to explore how these advancements can really elevate their work.

Susan Cort: Absolutely, and I want to come up with that game plan that he recommended for my own personal learning.

Susan Cort: I hope you do, too. Thanks, Jenny. And special thanks to our guest, Josh Cavalier. If you have an idea for a topic or a guest, please reach out to us at PoweredByLearning@dvinci.com. And don't forget, you can subscribe to Powered by Learning wherever you listen to your podcasts.