Developing Training with Diversity and Inclusion In Mind

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Training plays an important role in supporting diversity and inclusion efforts at organizations. But, how do we authentically represent diverse audiences and create meaningful training that resonates with the target audience? In this episode of Powered by Learning, we talk with Tiffany McLean, the learning and development manager at General RV Center, who develops learning strategy for more than 1,500 employees in six states and 12 locations. Ms. McLean is also the author of the article “Developing Training with Diversity & Inclusion in Mind,” that was published in Training Industry Magazine.

Show Notes:

Tiffany McLean has a passion for infusing diversity, equity and inclusion into the training she executes at RV General. An author on the topic of keeping diversity top of mind in L&D, Tiffany shares these key points and more.

• Learning & Development leaders influence people’s career development so you must be extra conscious about D&I to make sure all team members are included.
• Go beyond creating a learning persona and also meet with diverse team members in different roles so you can make training relevant to everyone.
• Get comfortable being uncomfortable and get to know people of different backgrounds so you have a broader perspective as you develop learning and development and influence peoples’ careers.

Read Tiffany McLean's article "Developing Training with Diversity and Inclusion in Mind" on TrainingIndustry.com.

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Announcer 1: This is Powered by Learning, a podcast designed for learning leaders to hear the latest approaches to creating learning experiences that engage learners and achieve improved performance for individuals and organizations.

Announcer 2: Powered by Learning is brought to you by d'Vinci interactive. For more than 25 years, d'Vinci has provided custom learning solutions to government agencies, corporations, medical education and certification organizations, and educational content providers. We collaborate with our clients to bring order and clarity to content and technology. Learn more at dvinci.com.

Susan: Hello and welcome to Powered by Learning. I'm your host Susan Cort, with me today is d'Vinci CEO, Luke Kempski. Today we are going to talk with Tiffany McLean. Tiffany is the learning and development manager at General RV Center where she develops learning strategy for more than 1500 employees in six states and 12 locations. She is also the author of the article, Developing Training with Diversity and Inclusion in Mind, that was published in Training Industry Magazine. Welcome, Tiffany.

Tiffany: Welcome, thank you for having me.

Luke: So glad you could join us, Tiffany, welcome.

Susan: Tiffany, tell us a little bit about yourself and why you're passionate about keeping diversity, equity, and inclusion top of mind in training?

Tiffany: Okay, so a little bit about myself. As a woman and as a person of color, I'm always aware of the little nuances that make learning a little bit of a challenge for some people. Whether it be seeing your own representation, whether it be just not feeling connected to the learning that's being developed, it's always been in my forefront of my mind all the time.

When I'm working with other instructional designers and talking with our executive team, I'm always thinking of the viewpoint of the holistic learner.

I think that's something that we oftentimes forget to think about is we're so busy trying to meet that deadline, we're trying to do this or trying to do that, we're multitasking that we sometimes forget the actual person that we're doing all of this for, and that's the learner.

Luke: Absolutely, yes, for sure. When you think about the learning and development leaders today, do you think they have a greater responsibility for advancing diversity and inclusion in their organization?

Tiffany: Most definitely. I really think that what we do have such an impact on the day-to-day lives of our employees, that we have to make sure that we're reaching everyone. It's very interesting because we have such a special, special place in people's career advancement. We're kind of behind the scenes. However, what we do really impacts the day to day for every single employee that we touch. They may not know who we are, they may not know where we sit in the organization but what we do or don't do has a positive or negative impact on them. So we definitely are the gatekeepers for not just diversity and inclusion but cultural norms, the entire package.

Luke: Yes, that's for sure. When you get down to the actual training programs and you think about the jobs of the instructional designer or the training developer or the facilitator, what do you advise in terms of how they can make their programs more diverse and inclusive?

Tiffany: Well, really the one thing is I have them do a couple of things. One of those things is actually go sit with the learner. We have learner personas developed for most of our staff. However, looking at the persona doesn't really give you the full picture of our entire base.

What I have people do is for example, they'll put a course together and then I'll review it, but they'll be submitting their first draft and I'll review it and I'll say, "You know what, I can't see it. The font is too small." To get people thinking about how can I enhance this learning. If there's audio, I can't hear it. Are we adding a transcript to this because we want to make sure we're reaching everyone where they are because otherwise, we're going to miss an entire portion of our population.

Luke: Excellent, yes. Are you typically working with programs that are online on demand kind of courses or are you working around a lot of instructor led either online or in person kind of courses?

Tiffany: No, we're really more online. I'd say about 80% of our training is online and about 20% is instructor led. It's a lot easier when it's an instructor led situation to see where you may need to shift your train of thought. But when you're doing it online, it's such a linear experience that you really have to find those ways to nuance it and reach everyone.

Luke: Have you found that there's a difference between the impact of the training? If the more inclusive it feels and the more diverse it representatives like, does the learner connect better with training that feels that it looks like them?

Tiffany: Most definitely. We have an individual in our organization who has some actual technological issues. They're not the most tech savvy, they're a little older, they're having some vision issues, and I've made it a point to make sure that we're addressing those things. Once we made that switch over that person actually reached out, actually their spouse reached out and said, "Oh my goodness, thank you," because they were excited to actually take a course because they could understand it. It spoke to them. They saw themselves in the scenarios that we presented.

Luke: Great. When we think about diversity, just like you mentioned, we often think about racial diversity, of course, that's really important. But how do you recommend getting deeper, getting to that next level when we think about it?

Tiffany: Really I think the key is to know your audience. It's really to get out there, meet the people that you're creating the training for. I know that's not always possible but if you do have that opportunity to go out there and meet your learning base, go out there and talk to them, find out, "I see you took this course. What could we do to make that course better?" It's all about getting that feedback and really connecting with our learners because they hold the key to us becoming better learning people.

Luke: You mentioned you're doing a lot of self-paced online learning and that of course, visuals are really important in that. What do you look for in your courses from a visual standpoint to make sure it has that diverse and inclusive feeling to it?

Tiffany: Well, it's really our number one mantra as we're developing courses is to make it look as diverse as we want the world to be. It's really finding images of people who don't necessarily look like me, don't necessarily look like you, but they look like someone else we may have seen at a grocery store, someone we saw at a gas station. Just making sure that it reflects the overall population of the world, because really underneath all of that the more people see those different experiences, the more their minds begin to open up and they're like, "Oh, I never thought that doing it this way would really impact me."

Susan: Tiffany, how do you do that in an authentic way? So that instructional designers are making sure that the way they're representing diverse audiences feels very genuine.

Tiffany: I actually have a couple of people, just random people, I'll say, "Hey, can you take a look at this course and tell me how it feels, because you know when something is inauthentic, correct?" People will look and say, "You know what, that feels like you tried a little bit too hard right there, dial that back," or, "No, that feels absolutely comfortable and correct. I could see this actual scenario playing out in this exact form and fashion. Keep doing what you're doing."

Susan: Almost have a little task force of sorts that will help check to make sure that you're being authentic.

Tiffany: Yes. I always select different people, not just that same group of people because when you do that, then they know exactly what to look for and then your answers aren't as authentic as you want them to be.

Luke: Tiffany, do you have any examples of training where you really think that they really got diversity and inclusion right in this training, and it really does add an extra kind of a boost to the outcomes of the learning because of that?

Tiffany: I really, if I had to pick the course that truly hit the mark on that, I would actually say it's our harassment course. We revamped our harassment course from the beginning to the end. We really made it feel as if you were living those different scenarios. Harassment is not a comfortable conversation to have to begin with, when you're talking about all of those things and making it so that it was, really felt like we were speaking directly to the learner and the learner's experience, it really-- I just in fact, received a compliment the other day, "Wow, that was really good training."

Most harassment courses were boring and flat and they're like, yes, click, click, click. But this one we really thought outside of the box and really created a very inclusive environment.

Luke: That's great. If you were developing an employee onboarding program, what would go through your mind in terms of really making sure that you're conscious of making the program accessible and engaging for all the audience types that you have, all the different employee types?

Tiffany: Well, that's a great question because one of the first things I did in my role was to develop our onboarding program. Really what I did is, I looked at our organization and like I said, I really believe in meeting with people and talking with our current employees, taking inventory of our employees that were joining the organization and speaking with them afterwards and saying, "Hey, how could we improve upon this?" And a lot of the feedback we received was, "This feels very male-oriented." The RV industry of itself denotes a more masculine feel. So we had to kind of soften our approach to that to begin to capture the attention of our female employees, which we have those as well. But we don't think about that because we just look, "Oh, okay, there's a man, there's a man, there's a man. Let's have all these strong male images in our onboarding and let's use all these strong manly words when doing so." I said, "Let's completely revamp this, and let's start all over and let's include everyone."

Luke: Tiffany, in developing your learning and development strategy, how do you think about diversity and inclusion? Where does it play into when you're thinking at that high level from a strategy standpoint?

Tiffany: Really, it's my number one focus, is making sure that we're executing on everything based on our organizational goals, as well as making sure that we are meeting our employees where they are. It's not as simple as, "Let's add 17 images of this type of person or 13 images of this, and make sure we use this word and that word because those are the keywords." It's really about who we are as a team and as an organization and getting that information out there.

Luke: Yes, absolutely. Have you found that there are common mistakes that people in training and development make when it comes to diversity and inclusion?

Tiffany: Yes. I think that we sometimes look at it just from the lens of race. "Let's make sure we have X. Let's make sure we have Y." And I think we sometimes forget the entire person. I really believe in making sure that our learning meets the entire holistic approach to an individual's day-to-day life. It's not just, "Let's find a picture of an African-American person or a Hispanic person." It's, "Let's find an image of someone who may be physically disabled. Maybe someone who's in a wheelchair or someone who's hard of hearing, things of that nature."

It's really meeting our employees where they are. To me, that's what I'm really passionate about and that's one of the things that my team and I, we discuss on an ongoing basis. Are we making sure that what we're doing really reflects who our employees are?

Luke: Yes, that's for sure. What about the idea of doing diversity and inclusion training? If somebody is in a position where they have to develop that for their organization, what kind of advice would you have for them?

Tiffany: I would have them really think about what their end goal is. If their end goal is to truly create a diverse and inclusive and equitable organization, then they need to do the work to make that happen. It's not just a checklist of things that you do and, ta-da, you have this diverse little situation. You have to actually do the hard work and do the research behind it and make sure, again, that you're speaking to the whole of a person.

Host: Because if you don't, I would imagine that it one, wouldn't seem authentic and two, that's not very sustainable.

Tiffany: Exactly. Exactly. And that's really the key, is that sustainability, you have to create an environment that your team can sustain and that the organization can sustain that feels true to your organization. It's not just say, "Here's a box and I've done all the DNI things. Ta-da." No. It's, "Here's an organization with a collective group of individuals with varied experiences and you need to meet them where they are."

Luke: Based on when we're recording this podcast, there's obviously a heightened awareness around racial diversity and making sure that we're providing opportunities and extra attention to racial issues and challenges. Is there anything that you would recommend in terms of how we address those in our organizations?

Tiffany: I would say, include the people that you want to help. I think sometimes we all get into our own little bubbles and we reach out to the people for advice and for guidance that look like us, that sound like us, that feel like us. And I think if we're going to make real change, you need to step outside of your box and meet people who are different than you. As a personal pledge to myself, I make it a point to meet someone who's different than I am at least once a year, someone who when I initially would be like, "Oh, my goodness, this person makes me feel uncomfortable, because I don't know enough about them." Then that tells me I need to know more about that person.

I've met a variety of wonderful people by stepping outside of my own comfort zone. That's really what I would suggest everyone does, step outside of your comfort zone, think about the last time you may have had some dinner or a lunch or anything with someone who doesn't look like you. Who doesn't live in the same area that you live in, who doesn't even have the same educational background as you because we can all learn from each other regardless.

Susan: Tiffany, you and I chatted before the interview about how the article that you wrote in Training Industry was actually written in early 2018. However, it is so timely now with recent events. What good can come from all that has gone wrong in recent months for the training industry? It seems like this is a moment to reinvent, given all that's been going on.

Tiffany: I really think that this particular moment in history affords us as learning leaders, the opportunity to do better, to be better, to really give back. It's been my experience that most learning leaders want to do the right thing. Sometimes, we lose sight of what that right thing is because we're so inundated with the demands of the day-to-day. But, pause for a moment and really think what is the right thing to do. "How do I want to leave this world? What mark do I want to have on it?" Hopefully, that is to make it a right and a just world.

Susan: Well said.

Luke: That's excellent. Is there anything else that you would like to share, Tiffany, before we wrap up today?

Tiffany: No. I guess for me, it's really, one, I want to thank you for having me on this podcast and two, really, people, just relax a little bit. It's okay to meet someone new. It's okay to feel uncomfortable when meeting someone new. The first step to making a more inclusive environment, a more inclusive world, is to go out and say, "Hi." You'd be amazed at what happens if you just say hello to someone.

Susan: All right great, Tiffany, thank you.

Luke: That was great, we appreciate it.

Tiffany: Thank you.

Susan: Luke, listening to Tiffany, she was so inspiring. What are some of the key takeaways from our conversation today?

Luke: I think Tiffany had some great takeaways. What she started out with was really good in terms of that as learning and development leaders, you're really influential on people's career development. Knowing that makes it so that you need to be extra conscious of diversity and inclusion and making sure that you're really thinking about all of the team members and all of who they are when you're thinking about their learning and development and their career advancement. Also, she mentioned about going beyond just having a learning persona, but to actually meet employees that are in different roles and that are diverse so that you have a real good sense of who they are when you're developing the training that will go out to them.

Also, going beyond a checklist when it comes to diversity and inclusion and really making sure that it's a fit with your organization and has that flavor to it that's very inclusive and part of your culture, and a culture that feels diverse and inclusive. Then, as individuals, to be comfortable being uncomfortable and get to know people outside of your comfort zone, people that might not look like you or have very different backgrounds, educational backgrounds, and cultural backgrounds. And really get to know them so that you have a much better, broader perspective in mind as you develop learning and development and influence people's careers.

Susan: Thanks, Luke. That was a great recap of Tiffany's conversation. I think she's got some good advice for every training and development leader to think about as they move forward, keeping diversity inclusion top of mind. Well thanks Luke, and many thanks to Tiffany McLean for joining us today. If you have any questions about what we talked about, you can also reach out to us on d'Vinci's social channels, through our website, dvinci.com, or by emailing us at poweredbylearning@dvinci.com

Announcer 2: Powered by Learning is brought to you by d'Vinci Interactive. For more than 25 years, d'Vinci has provided custom learning solutions to government agencies, corporations, medical education and certification organizations, and educational content providers. We collaborate with our clients to bring order and clarity to content and technology. Learn more at dvinci.com